RBGs - Redemption

A place to talk about the PVP aspects of Redemption

RBGs - Redemption

Postby Zarrockk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:29 am

Hello everyone!

First off, I have been playing on this server for a little over 10 days now and it has been a great experience so far, absolutely loving the crowd and atmosphere!

Now something that i noticed right after hitting 80 is that that only kind of mass PVP that takes place is WG for the most part and the very rare Rbg.

I understand that this is a PVE server, but there is nothing " hardcore PVP "about Rbgs, they're just a fun break from the monotony and are usually a lot of fun when done in groups! Also, the WG fights are never a fair fight, as the horde numbers just crush alliance most of the times (which would not be a problem in Rbgs) which further would dissuade people from wanting to pvp a little.

Perhaps you guys could suggest ways and means that we could adopt to perhaps incentivise & increase the participation of people in Rbgs! I personally feel this would be a great addition to this realm :)

would love to hear everyone's perspective on this!
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Re: RBGs - Redemption

Postby Lightmare » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:56 pm

I'm not sure you can really incentive it any more. People either want to do it, or they don't. Incentives would be useful if everyone was doing something else related. Similar to when retail introduced the bonus honor for the "weekly BG". It kept pvp'ers from only queuing the more lucritive Alterac Valley and ignoring the more droll places like Arathi Basin.

I think you'd find with any server population, only a small portion really are truly interested in pvp. You could see this even in retail when only a few total battlegrounds are active at any point. So lets just say for numbers sake its 1% of the population wants to do battlegrounds. If that population was 25,000 you have 250 doing battlegrounds at any given time. Scale that mentality down to the population here and you probably have 10-20 people who would want to. Compound that with the fact the population is spread across the world time zones and its thinner at any given point.

Even if the incentives were incredible, you'd just pull people in that didn't necessarily care about it trying to get the incentives. Not sure if that would be any better than no pvp at all. Any of us that played retail and actually enjoy battlegrounds know all about people just in there for earning cp to buy up a weapon because it happens to be BiS. They were not much better than the bots that sat at the entrance. Eventually they get what they need and stop coming too, so the lower population still has that numbers issue.
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Re: RBGs - Redemption

Postby OfficerBain » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:36 pm

Nice initiative Zarrockk! Let's try to brainstorm abit on why there aren't enough BG's taking place, and how to improve this!
I believe:
1) The mixture of PvP and PvE is one of the main reasons why WoW became so popular

2) There are plenty of people who favor either PvE or PvP, but enjoy doing both

3) Even though this is a PvE server, there are currently enough players to get some BG's and arena games going.
I've been told that there was a time where GM's promoted BG's by offering some special rewards, and that this was pretty succesful, leading to 2 weeks of almost 90% BG uptime during peak hours (when both US and EU players are online). So no, I don't agree with Lightmare that you can't incentivize people. Sure, you might also bring in people in BG's that are there purely for the rewards, but 80% of the players will queue BG's for both the rewards aswell as the fun they'd have in BG's. On top of that, the mere expectation that queueing for a BG can actually lead to a BG game getting started, will make more people join the queue. I also think that there are many PvE-ers here who would join a BG for their first time and might actually start enjoying it, further increasing the pool of players who are willing to participate in BG's

4) Having an active PvP community on the server will actually bring in alot of new players into the server. People like you and me, who like WotLK and want to play both PvE and PvP. I believe that incentivizing participation in BG's and arenas can be a great move for the owners of this server, as the pool of people that are currently joining this server would increase from only PvE-ers, to PvE-ers + people who enjoy both. And there are alot of the latter

Some ideas I have to improve participation:
- PvPers have to become more organized, set times where we queue for example. Make PvP guilds / friendlists. If I know that we're gonna try to get a BG going at some set time, I will log in for that.
- GM's can incentivize BG's by increasing rewards in two ways. (1) First way is to increase the BG and arena rewards blizzard usually gives. And when I say increase, I could easily see a doubling of the honor rewards, for example. Just think about it, in retail, if you want to gather honor items, you join some BG's and you can easily do 10 BG's per day without really farming it. You just queue, get invited within 5 minutes and you spam those BG's and make some honor. But in a private server like this one, you would be lucky to get 2 BG's I guess from what I hear. So even if you quadriple the honor rewards, you still won't do anything unbalanced. So I say, just start with 1,5x the rewards, see how it goes. Do x2 the week after, see if that's unbalanced, etc.
(2) Second incentive could be to have some sort of events, maybe changing weekly, where completing/winning a BG/arena gives a some reward, perhaps a box of random items. In Guildwars 2, people really seem to enjoy these sort of rewards. You get a box of random things, usually they are crap, but once every 3-4 games you get something nice, like a material or some vanity/transmog item.

Also, I get the impression that ' PvP' has a negative connotation on this server, most likely due to some people who insist on ganking Auctioneers and such. Most PvPers aren't like that, they don't join a PvE server just to gank lowbies or NPC's. In fact I don't even consider it PvP myself. Most PvPers enjoy a good fight in Arena, Battleground, duels or world pvp. I would like for PvP to be thought of as the fun and intricate bit of teamplay that it really is. Maybe more players will consider joining a BG when they realize that PvP isn't all that scary or toxic. So we have some remarketing to do guys!
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Re: RBGs - Redemption

Postby Lightmare » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:41 pm

OfficerBain wrote:Some ideas I have to improve participation:
- PvPers have to become more organized, set times where we queue for example. Make PvP guilds / friendlists. If I know that we're gonna try to get a BG going at some set time, I will log in for that.


I think this is one of the key things. It's like many urban park areas. It's an eye sore that nobody wants until a group gets together and starts cleaning it up. This entices others because now there is progress.

The biggest negative for PvP is the fact people don't wait around. If someone queues and sees they are the only one in the queue, they will most likely look for another way that is a better use of their limited time. If those of us that truly enjoy the pvp make an active effort to spend our time in the queue, you'd probably see a growth in the number of RBG.

I'm not sure if this is already possible as I haven't checked, but another option would be to come up with a conversion for pvp -> pve reward. Like purchasing mania points for X amount of honor. Since you can pretty much buy your way in PvE or PvP already, I don't think anyone would complain about using pvp to progress gear for pve. It would most likely be an easier thing to add from a code stand point than gift boxes. I think you would lure in the people stuck in that level 80 sink hole of not having high enough gear for Heroics and having to use RDF, only to end up in a level 70 dungeon. I would personally rather grind battlegrounds than wait in the queue for Lich King normal as a DPS. I'll take WSG over Azjol-Neru any day :D

Just have to make sure the server can watch for battleground bots which would inevitably start popping up.
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Re: RBGs - Redemption

Postby Kalasbyxan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Moved this topic to PVP for an easier view over the discussion when the time is right.
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Re: RBGs - Redemption

Postby OfficerBain » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:10 pm

Lightmare wrote:Just have to make sure the server can watch for battleground bots which would inevitably start popping up.


Indeed, though GM's on our server are MUCH more active than they are on retail servers :) I think they'll be able to catch AFKers and bots quite easily. Just introduce a hefty punishment for botting in BG's, and people won't do it as the chance to get caught is quite high in our server. More so because everyone sort of knows eachother, or atleast remembers names. Botting in BG will get you reported really fast and GM's here generally respond instantly, so I think we'd be safe on that front aslong as the GM's can agree to introduce a substantial punishment.
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Re: RBGs - Redemption

Postby stefannel » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:02 pm

This issue has been reported for half a year already.
Link here (RBG / More than one bg in suggestion section)
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=948
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