judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pally?

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judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pally?

Postby marke34 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:08 pm

Hiya! I guess this is my first time in this private server, or rather ANY WOTLK private server, or WoW in general(yeah, this is my first time actually playing WoW, never tried the retail version, and I was interested in a WOTLK private server after hearing how great that expansion was for this game, so I looked around for a blizzlike WOTLK private server, and decided that this one is my favorite, don't laugh at me, XD.)

I guess that means you can welcome me to the private server, or WoW if you want, even if it is kinda off topic from what I want to know with this post, would be nice, XD. Anyways, after looking around, and researching about the class options for WOTLK, I decided to main a female dranei pally first, though I will be raiding with all 10 classes eventually, particularly because I was always a huge fan of tank healers in games like this, and I could be a very good tank on the side when a raid team ever needs one of those. After looking into holy paladins itself, and reading guides about them, I think I got the gist about how they heal, though I just started making one, so I will probably not be utilizing it for a while, still nice to know for later on when I get to raiding with him though.

I have a question though, do I use judgement of wisdom or judgement of light, or if I should use both, when should I use judgement of light/judgement of wisdom? From what I gathered, judgement of light would be nice for a really good AOE heal that paladins lack, even if raid healing is better left to the other 4 healers instead, it is always great to help out with raid healing when needed, and judgement of wisdom gives a lot of mana to the whole raid.

I would most likely go the HL route for my pally healer, instead of the FOL route if that helps. I heard quite a few differing opinions about it, and there are no actual answers to the question that really helps out in deciding between them in this case, talk about when to use them, or give any definitive answer, so I am asking here instead, because I am stuck between the 2 options, XD. Thanks for the help in advance!

Edit: apparently, I confused the terminology, I was asking about JUDGEMENT of wisdom/seal which is a refreshing debuff you regularly place on the boss every minute, or so, the glyphs in question that I mentioned affected the self-buffs from SEAL of wisdom/judgment, so I changed my terminology, and removed the glyph part, I would most likely go with the seal of wisdom glyph, XD.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby Osidius » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:18 am

As a healer in general, you'll find yourself out of range to even cast a Judgement on a mob or boss. So, I really wouldn't worry about casting Judgements as holy spec. In raiding, you'll also be mostly casting Holy Light instead of Flash of Light. Raiding bosses hit hard and tanks (hell, even a lot of DPS) have large health pools.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby Xerjol » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:55 am

You will always use judgement of light in raid environment as a holy paladin. And you HAVE to use it, unlike that other comment states. It's simply because you get 15% casting speed increase whenever you cast a judgement.
You should only use Judgement of Wisodm if you have a pally tank that is using light. If you have a Ret in the raid, you definitely won't have to use wisdom.
So, the idea is simple, use light by default and use wisdom IF you have someone else that's doing light and no one else that's doing wisdom. In theory, you'll be using light in every raid ever.
And yes, you want to use Holy Light spam, FoL spam is pointless and dumb. Also, if i might add...glyph for seal of light is better, unless you don't have the 2set T10 bonus for your T10 and are struggling with mana.

P.S as a holy light paladin you're not simply a "tank healer". There's is really no such thing. Yes, your holy lights are best suited for topping off tanks, however you will want to keep spamming it on the raid aswell whenever your tank is not in danger, especially if you go for the holy light glyph (which is a must have).

Take this from an experienced raid leader and a guild master.
Last edited by Xerjol on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby marke34 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:40 am

Wait...THE JUDGEMENTS ALSO GIVE HASTE?!? Cool! Now I will definitely be refreshing my judgement of lights on my boss when I have the chance when I start actually raiding on this guy, it provides a lot of AOE healing to my raid along with my holy lights, AND gives haste which enables me to cast quicker heals, unless there is another pally in my team, though their raid healing is most likely not as great as the other 4 more dedicated ones, it could provide some serious help to them either way.

It would probably get annoying having to micromanage the judgment of light debuff thing, and always remember to put it on the boss every minute, and not do it too early/too late, I guess that comes with practice, same goes for aura usage XD. I could still do a ton of healing mainly to tanks/beaconed targets/lesser AOE healing to other melee targets with my holy lights unless the tank(s) are at full health, or others are at more danger or provide some more mobile healing with holy shocks/burst healing with lay on hands, and shield my tanks until I get that straightened out though, XD.

Also, thanks for putting me even further in the HL camp as a holy pally, XD, now I will definitely focus on using it over FOL...now to find some intellect heavy plate gear... Also, I will consider going with the seal of light glyph instead of wisdom now, so thanks for the suggestion for that as well.

As for the range issue with judgments, isn't there a talent called enlightened judgments somewhere on the holy tree that increases the range of the judgments by 30 meters when 2 ranks are added to it that would fix the issue? If not, then the range thing could be a serious problem, :(.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby Xerjol » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:26 pm

Range won't be an issue, if i recall correctly then that range increase talent was a must have on a proper Holy talent tree and it was the one with that cast speed increase whenever you cast a jugement.
As for timings and such, it's not really hard, the haste increase lasts incredibly long and so does the heal effect on boss.
Simply put, stack Intellect in every gem slot and go for crit+haste gear, and spam holy light. If you do that, you're off to a good start.
However i will warn you, Holy Light healing is really going to burn your mana, as a new raider you will be running out of mana so badly. That is why the 2set from T10 is something you need ASAP, prioritise it above all else.
The T10 2set will allow you to heal while under the effects of Divine Plea without having any drawbacks as proper usage of the 2set will directly counter the healing reduction from Divine Plea.
P.S - Get the best in slot libram from one of the emblem vendors, it's the one that reduces the mana cost of Holy Light. Many people like to go for the spellpower libram but it's really pointless seeing you'll be healing for over 30k with one holy light anyways, there's no real reason to increase your overhealing lol.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby marke34 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:31 pm

Alright, perfect, thanks for taking your time out of your schedule to help out a fresh pally when it comes to gearing! BTW, for gearing, is MP5 needed for holydins at all, or could we skip it entirely? I would imagine it would have at least SOME use for them, particularly for holy light paladins who rely on spamming those huge expensive heals all the time, so increasing throughput through mana regen would help out, though considering the fact that the t10 set, and the libram set kinda takes care of the problem, I could see why we do not need to stack it unlike the other 3 stats, XD.

Now to actually level this stupid gal, not look at the forums 24/7, and hopefully actually get to raid with her someday, pally leveling right now feels EXTREMELY boring, just using normal attacks/judgements, though the dranei starter area was a fun one to go through and left a nice first impression for me when trying out WoW for the first time, though running through it feels like a slog for some reason, and I had no trouble surviving with her as long as I do not pull 3+ mobs, she seems pretty durable(plus she looks cute, and dat waggle, so at least I get some eye candy), I hope leveling her gets better later on, and I don't have to take 10 hours to kill one stupid enemy... Dang it, this is going to suck, XD. See you later!
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby Xerjol » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:38 pm

MP5 is not necessary at all. But in order to play that build to it's fullest you'll have to practice and learn to manage your mana and CD's + raid CD's.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby marke34 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:04 pm

Alright, great, so in essence, MP5 is helpful as a holy pally, but it is not neccesary as long as you learn to use your mana. Well, I am willing to practice, and work on mana management. As for as I know, these are the ways to manage mana minus the gear you mentioned:

.use the mana gained back from judgement of wisdom to get mana

.have seal of wisdom up all the time to reduce mana cost IF you have that glyph

.stack MP5, crit on holy light//FoL/holy shock to get tons of mana back(meaning that stacking crit also doubles as a way to help manage mana for this guy, and that raid cooldown that autocrits a spell is REALLY nice for a 100% chance of giving back mana in addition to that critical heal)

.use divine plea to regenerate mana at the cost of some healing power which could be canceled through divine plea/avengers wrath, and alleviated through the t10 set bonus

.use divine illumination to give a massive reduction to the mana cost of spells to do tons of holy lights in a row, or to cancel out the divine plea debuff.

.use the efficient FoL spell when the tank is almost topped up, or with sacred shield, which when critted with holy shock can be an insta cast, which then could be critted to give more mana

.of course, int also increases mana, SP, AND crit as well.

.blessing of wisdom/blessing of kings could help out with mana management

The first three things I mentioned are stuff I will not exactly use, so those can be immediately taken away from my list, but it still sounds like there are A LOT of things you can do to help with mana management for holydins, and so much things to keep track of, and handle, makes my head spin, :(.

I'm sure it will get better with good timing, practice, and CD usage for him though, so I am not too worried about that for now. This spec is deceptively difficult to master and complicated, despite it looking so easy on paper, looks like I will have my hands full with him, though I'm sure I can handle it eventually.
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Re: judgement of light or judgement of wisdom for a holy pal

Postby Batu » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:15 am

A few things which need tweaking here.

You need to JoL as a holy pally preferrably because of its interactions with Gts (Glowing Twilight Scale) which every holy pally should get as they acquire BiS gear. On top of the casting speed buff you get which lasts a minute, every other pally should be doing Judgement of Wisdom on boss and only 1 light from the holy pally to maintain judgement uptime 100%.

In order to get effective Divine Pleas, you need to know the encounters and trust your downtime on healing a bit if you aren't willing to pop a Divine Illumination/Wings or any other cd with plea.

Your first plea regardless of fight or cds popped should generally come at around 70%=> and second one at around 40%.

Run glyph of seal of wisdom if you're going to start raiding 25 heroics soon. Calculations and everything else only matters on LK and no other boss, and analyzing the LK fight for every role its quite long and due to Disc Priests being bugged some extra healing is required on the fight.

Seal of Wisdom = More casts = More healing
Seal of Light - Adds more overhealing to your already 80-85% overhealing. Less amount of casts - Less healing.

Regardless of your stats, you become useless without mana just like any other dps (almost) which uses mana. LK fight is roughly around 11-13 minutes for us so its something to take into account.

use the mana gained back from judgement of wisdom to get mana


This is wrong, judgement of wisdom doesnt give you mana back unless you're MELEEING the boss. Meleeing the boss regardless (with Seal of WIsdom) is your last resort or if you can fit in a few auto hits on certain bosses if you choose not to plea, or you have some downtime on your healing so can afford to).


use the efficient FoL spell when the tank is almost topped up, or with sacred shield, which when critted with holy shock can be an insta cast, which then could be critted to give more mana



Only time you should consider on using FoL is if your target has:

  • Sacred shield on them
  • You can afford to waste that global to put a HoT on your target. (This doesn't necessarily have to be with the instant cast from Holy shock crit).


Generally for maximum healing output (25 mans), you should prioritize healing melee over rdps since they will generally be stacked so you'll have maximum value from your Glyph of Holy light.

  • Never use Divine Sacrifice without a follow up cd for yourself (Divine Protection/Bubble) since you might get 1 shot (Depends on use).
  • Never drop your beacon on your target (You might have to change it around depending on fights)
  • Always refresh JoL every 20 seconds to maintain it on boss for melees.
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